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 Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)

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PostSubject: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:37 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265402/Adventurous-human-woman-wanted-birth-Neanderthal-man-Harvard-professor.html

In a nutshell, Professor George Church from Harvard has the know how and the desire to bring a Neanderthal into the world using harvested DNA from the genetic code in fossil remains. He believes that the project could benefit mankind due to his hypothesis that Neanderthals were actually naturally smarter than Homo Sapiens. The only thing he needs now, is a willing female to carry a Neanderthal baby to term. There of course has been loads of both support and of course opposition against this. With the main concerns being ethics, human rights (A neanderthal is human, although you have to think of all the legal repercussions involving this.)

In my opinion, this could be one of the biggest scientific breakthroughs involving genetics in history. I know it can be done: (The first extinct animal brought back to life - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/4409958/Extinct-ibex-is-resurrected-by-cloning.html )

There are a lot of issues involving legalities, civil rights, medicinal and ethical concerns, and intelligence. There are several possibilities that the scientific and legal community would need to consider.

Possibility #1 (Best Possible Outcome) - The Neanderthal is smarter or equally as intelligent as humans:
This is the best possible outcome. This would mean that the Neanderthal would be able to adapt semi-well to society. (The reason I'm using semi-well is because we can't even expect humanity to be kind to itself, let alone a species of similar or greater intelligence. People would be intimidated, and it would likely cause vast discrimination issues which is completely unfair to the Neanderthal, (s)he didn't choose to be involved in this world.) You can forget the possibility of a Neanderthal getting hired by a company / anything, could you imagine a non-comical version of a Neanderthal working a desk job? No, the Neanderthal would have to be financially supported / cared for by the scientific community / Professor George Church / whoever is funding his research. Would the Neanderthal be able to vote? What if the Neanderthal wants a mate? The most important question is though, if the Neanderthal was as smart or smarter than us, would the global community take him or her seriously. Would the Neanderthal be viewed as human or as creature? Based on fossil records it would look visibly different than a human, so the option of having him try to assimilate into society from the age of a child isn't an option.

Possibility #2 (What I Expect) - The Neanderthal is either equal or less intelligent than humans.

This is a very real possibility and it raises a lot of ethical concerns. If the Neanderthal is to be treated as human, what if it doesn't understand morality or ethics? Imagine if the Neanderthal were to say / do things that are illegal or something similar. Would it be tried in the court of law? Is it exempt from this due to being a different species? Who would take care of him?

Possibility #3 (Worst Possible Outcome) - The Neanderthal is incapable of full human activity / or is naturally a predator.

There have been multiple scientific studies that suggest that Neanderthals may have hunted modern humans during its time frame. If this was the case, we would technically be bringing back something that hunted us. Things would get even more complicated due to the fact that there has also been research indicated that Humans and Neanderthals had offspring and that we all have a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA in our genetic code (maybe this would explain a lot of things, such as how over time our bones and muscles were able to develop more and grow stronger. If the Neanderthal has to be taken care of like an animal, how would that sit ethically. If it killed a caretaker would it be put down?

The overlying thing here is that we are bringing back a prehistoric human being. Sure it's from a different species, but it's still human. If this is to go through, then it can't be done haphazardly. All possible precautions must be taken to ensure the safety and rights of the Neanderthal, as well as the people taking care of him / her. We must also understand that a Neanderthal's brain is not adapted for technology as ours have slowly become accustomed to over the years.

What do you guys think about this? Is it ethical to bring back a Neanderthal? Is this the next step we need to take to advance our scientific community above and beyond what it is at this very moment? Or will this just be another tragedy similar to the Ibex that I linked above (for those who didn't read, it died seven minutes after birth due to a lung defect that seems to be common in cloned / resurrected animals.) In the same way however, it could be a success such as Dolly the sheep, but on a much larger scale. We live in some pretty crazy scientific times don't we?

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PostSubject: Re: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:09 am

it would probably die before it was even born. if not before birth, shortly after as did the ibex that was cloned. "Sadly, the newborn ibex kid died shortly after birth due to physical defects in its lungs. Other cloned animals, including sheep, have been born with similar lung defects"
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PostSubject: Re: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:12 am

fuckthepoleece wrote:
it would probably die before it was even born. if not before birth, shortly after as did the ibex that was cloned. "Sadly, the newborn ibex kid died shortly after birth due to physical defects in its lungs. Other cloned animals, including sheep, have been born with similar lung defects"
But Cloned animals have survived. Look at Dolly the Sheep, and a multitude of other animals. The question is, what to do if it survives?

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PostSubject: Re: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:23 pm

BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
it would probably die before it was even born. if not before birth, shortly after as did the ibex that was cloned. "Sadly, the newborn ibex kid died shortly after birth due to physical defects in its lungs. Other cloned animals, including sheep, have been born with similar lung defects"
But Cloned animals have survived. Look at Dolly the Sheep, and a multitude of other animals. The question is, what to do if it survives?
point is, those animals arent extinct. their bodies are the same as their parents. the reason they died is because their bodies werent compatible i guarantee it.
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PostSubject: Re: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:18 pm

fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
it would probably die before it was even born. if not before birth, shortly after as did the ibex that was cloned. "Sadly, the newborn ibex kid died shortly after birth due to physical defects in its lungs. Other cloned animals, including sheep, have been born with similar lung defects"
But Cloned animals have survived. Look at Dolly the Sheep, and a multitude of other animals. The question is, what to do if it survives?
point is, those animals arent extinct. their bodies are the same as their parents. the reason they died is because their bodies werent compatible i guarantee it.
This could be true. It's a very real possibility that even though the DNA is highly similar, it may not be close enough. The only thing I have against this theory though is that multiple species interbreed in the wild or in captivity daily. (For example; the liger.) They're compatible and they're a whole different species. So what gives there?

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PostSubject: Re: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:09 pm

BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
it would probably die before it was even born. if not before birth, shortly after as did the ibex that was cloned. "Sadly, the newborn ibex kid died shortly after birth due to physical defects in its lungs. Other cloned animals, including sheep, have been born with similar lung defects"
But Cloned animals have survived. Look at Dolly the Sheep, and a multitude of other animals. The question is, what to do if it survives?
point is, those animals arent extinct. their bodies are the same as their parents. the reason they died is because their bodies werent compatible i guarantee it.
This could be true. It's a very real possibility that even though the DNA is highly similar, it may not be close enough. The only thing I have against this theory though is that multiple species interbreed in the wild or in captivity daily. (For example; the liger.) They're compatible and they're a whole different species. So what gives there?
actually the liger would never be able to exist outside of captivity. just because it can be done doesnt mean itll work out. its too big and uses too much energy. itd have to be a pack hunter and take down an elephant atleast once a week. while lions are pack hunters so to speak, tigers are solo hunter. and btw the elephant would only feed 2-3 ligers. a pride is atleast 10 i think. so you do the math. and one other thing. evolution. we dont know if we interbred with neanderthals back in the day, but if we did, we've evolved too far past them. our dna just simple wouldnt be compatable. the human gnome isnt completly mapped yet, not even close. we dont kno0w what chromosomes effect birthing yet, so we would probably end up killing the mother and the neanderthal baby.
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PostSubject: Re: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:22 pm

fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
it would probably die before it was even born. if not before birth, shortly after as did the ibex that was cloned. "Sadly, the newborn ibex kid died shortly after birth due to physical defects in its lungs. Other cloned animals, including sheep, have been born with similar lung defects"
But Cloned animals have survived. Look at Dolly the Sheep, and a multitude of other animals. The question is, what to do if it survives?
point is, those animals arent extinct. their bodies are the same as their parents. the reason they died is because their bodies werent compatible i guarantee it.
This could be true. It's a very real possibility that even though the DNA is highly similar, it may not be close enough. The only thing I have against this theory though is that multiple species interbreed in the wild or in captivity daily. (For example; the liger.) They're compatible and they're a whole different species. So what gives there?
actually the liger would never be able to exist outside of captivity. just because it can be done doesnt mean itll work out. its too big and uses too much energy. itd have to be a pack hunter and take down an elephant atleast once a week. while lions are pack hunters so to speak, tigers are solo hunter. and btw the elephant would only feed 2-3 ligers. a pride is atleast 10 i think. so you do the math. and one other thing. evolution. we dont know if we interbred with neanderthals back in the day, but if we did, we've evolved too far past them. our dna just simple wouldnt be compatable. the human gnome isnt completly mapped yet, not even close.  we dont kno0w what chromosomes effect birthing yet, so we would probably end up killing the mother and the neanderthal baby.
We have bred with Neanderthals, we have a semi-complete record of the Neanderthal genome and the Human genome and it's been proven that part of our DNA (most notably the increased density of our bone structure and stronger facial features) comes from Neanderthal genetics. In all instances of cloning and artificial insemination that I'm aware of, no injury has ever come to the mother of the child. Scientists are already unlocking the secrets of genetic coding and modifying genetics to specify what traits are more dominant that others, and the introduction of new traits in general. Also, there's a LARGE difference between a Neanderthal and a Liger. Sure, everything you said about the Liger is true, but the Neanderthal has all the resources available to it. Especially with scientific funding available, it'll be well cared for. It's much different to take care of a human / human like creature than it is to take care of a non sentient animal.

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PostSubject: Re: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:13 pm

BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
it would probably die before it was even born. if not before birth, shortly after as did the ibex that was cloned. "Sadly, the newborn ibex kid died shortly after birth due to physical defects in its lungs. Other cloned animals, including sheep, have been born with similar lung defects"
But Cloned animals have survived. Look at Dolly the Sheep, and a multitude of other animals. The question is, what to do if it survives?
point is, those animals arent extinct. their bodies are the same as their parents. the reason they died is because their bodies werent compatible i guarantee it.
This could be true. It's a very real possibility that even though the DNA is highly similar, it may not be close enough. The only thing I have against this theory though is that multiple species interbreed in the wild or in captivity daily. (For example; the liger.) They're compatible and they're a whole different species. So what gives there?
actually the liger would never be able to exist outside of captivity. just because it can be done doesnt mean itll work out. its too big and uses too much energy. itd have to be a pack hunter and take down an elephant atleast once a week. while lions are pack hunters so to speak, tigers are solo hunter. and btw the elephant would only feed 2-3 ligers. a pride is atleast 10 i think. so you do the math. and one other thing. evolution. we dont know if we interbred with neanderthals back in the day, but if we did, we've evolved too far past them. our dna just simple wouldnt be compatable. the human gnome isnt completly mapped yet, not even close.  we dont kno0w what chromosomes effect birthing yet, so we would probably end up killing the mother and the neanderthal baby.
We have bred with Neanderthals, we have a semi-complete record of the Neanderthal genome and the Human genome  and it's been proven that part of our DNA (most notably the increased density of our bone structure and stronger facial features) comes from Neanderthal genetics. In all instances of cloning and artificial insemination that I'm aware of, no injury has ever come to the mother of the child. Scientists are already unlocking the secrets of genetic coding and modifying genetics to specify what traits are more dominant that others, and the introduction of new traits in general. Also, there's a LARGE difference between a Neanderthal and a Liger. Sure, everything you said about the Liger is true, but the Neanderthal has all the resources available to it. Especially with scientific funding available, it'll be well cared for. It's much different to take care of a human / human like creature than it is to take care of a non sentient animal.
but, where those with extinct animals? because the baby ibex died. like seriously, it probably wouldnt even survive in the worlds current atmosphere.
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PostSubject: Re: Resurrecting the Neanderthal (Ethics and Challenges)   Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:55 pm

fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
BlackEnvyX wrote:
fuckthepoleece wrote:
it would probably die before it was even born. if not before birth, shortly after as did the ibex that was cloned. "Sadly, the newborn ibex kid died shortly after birth due to physical defects in its lungs. Other cloned animals, including sheep, have been born with similar lung defects"
But Cloned animals have survived. Look at Dolly the Sheep, and a multitude of other animals. The question is, what to do if it survives?
point is, those animals arent extinct. their bodies are the same as their parents. the reason they died is because their bodies werent compatible i guarantee it.
This could be true. It's a very real possibility that even though the DNA is highly similar, it may not be close enough. The only thing I have against this theory though is that multiple species interbreed in the wild or in captivity daily. (For example; the liger.) They're compatible and they're a whole different species. So what gives there?
actually the liger would never be able to exist outside of captivity. just because it can be done doesnt mean itll work out. its too big and uses too much energy. itd have to be a pack hunter and take down an elephant atleast once a week. while lions are pack hunters so to speak, tigers are solo hunter. and btw the elephant would only feed 2-3 ligers. a pride is atleast 10 i think. so you do the math. and one other thing. evolution. we dont know if we interbred with neanderthals back in the day, but if we did, we've evolved too far past them. our dna just simple wouldnt be compatable. the human gnome isnt completly mapped yet, not even close.  we dont kno0w what chromosomes effect birthing yet, so we would probably end up killing the mother and the neanderthal baby.
We have bred with Neanderthals, we have a semi-complete record of the Neanderthal genome and the Human genome  and it's been proven that part of our DNA (most notably the increased density of our bone structure and stronger facial features) comes from Neanderthal genetics. In all instances of cloning and artificial insemination that I'm aware of, no injury has ever come to the mother of the child. Scientists are already unlocking the secrets of genetic coding and modifying genetics to specify what traits are more dominant that others, and the introduction of new traits in general. Also, there's a LARGE difference between a Neanderthal and a Liger. Sure, everything you said about the Liger is true, but the Neanderthal has all the resources available to it. Especially with scientific funding available, it'll be well cared for. It's much different to take care of a human / human like creature than it is to take care of a non sentient animal.
but, where those with extinct animals? because the baby ibex died. like seriously, it probably wouldnt even survive in the worlds current atmosphere.
Well, we'll have to see what happens then. The next extinct animal currently being cloned is the Mammoth (it's already in gestation and should be born within the next year). So we'll see if that survives. If the Mammoth survives the birthing process and grows, then it'll be very possible for the Neanderthal to live.

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